You also have no idea what else is happening. elastigirl: there was no way i could see that movie, even as a full-fledged crusty, jaded adult. Nice job. This has been going on now for 12 years. Law Prof: the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments. Thank you!!!! To answer your point about making the jump. Because they have no conscience and no moral compass. You need to stop looking at yourself as a victim and a good guy and admit that you are the neo-Pharisee that you really are. We now see, via ECFA, that these massive personal perks were evidently excluded from their comp review, meaning James has likely been under reporting his income to the IRS by hundreds of thousands a year. Those extra-Biblical portions comprise 95% of what's been in the show thus far, according to Jenkins, but that and everything else is still run through a proofing process involving scholars of the Bible and people in full-time ministry to make sure it is in harmony with what's in Scripture. And thats before one adds in the problem of self-deception. Nothing to be ashamed of. I am sorry that my concerns about the institutional church from day one cause you distress. Bill Hybels, miracle seeker-driven leader, stands credibly accused of sexual harassment and molestation. Some comments lead to some questions. All of these men, who were deeply involved long-term under visible, ungodly leadership have a lot to answer for. Sadly, many have not served well. That is the foundation of our faith. Covidfrom the start of the pandemic and lockdowns, the Worship and Creative Teams busied themselves with recordings, writing coronavirus updates, and developing worship environments that would be both accessible and God-honoring in the height of the pandemic. If Paul was a rogue usurper, Luke was the co-conspirator who legitimized the takeover. Id call him a bottom feeder but I like lobster too much..So hes lower than that. Echoes of simony as well as James 2:2-4, There are arguably relational dis-economies of scale in social structures. Greg Laurie Feb 27, 2023 Harvest Online Worship Resources Our online church worship resources are designed to help you know God deeper and engage with His word on a whole new level. In 2001, the Crystal Lake Campus began as the second Harvest church plant then transitioned to a campus, officially launching on September 1, 2007. This is indeed the plan of Satan, IMO, but when you try to suggest such a thing you are usually scoffed at as a conspiracy theorist. Leila: he will be partnering with a music minister from another local church and they are starting a church service in a bar on Sunday evenings. Together, they developed a vision for this church, which grew into the Four PillarsUnapologetic Preaching, Unashamed Adoration, Unceasing Prayer, and Unafraid Witness. Yet with their plausible and attractive arguments they deceive those who are too simple-hearted to see through them (Romans 16:17). And it is bad form to hijack a thread to comment on a topic when asked not to. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. Fans of hit TV series The Chosen know creator Dallas Jenkins' "five loaves and two fish story". Then, I started laughing! http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/. Pathetic at best. And all of the gold and silver in those Spanish cathedrals was stolen from colonies in Central and South America, where it was mined by enslaved natives, mostly. Ive heard the voice of my Savior, American believers have been forced to accept far less than God intended for us; were just too comfortable with easy-church and easy-believism that costs us nothing. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. Well, Amy, youve provided us a rather disgusting look at the character of these characters! The beat goes on until Jesus returns. humble. Thats a rare bird, indeed, in the American church. We believe that disciples of Jesus profess that He is Lord, practice His Ways, and persevere in both their profession and practice. Please forgive me. And thats the cold, hard truth. The word contains with it a reference to age. But one way or the other, my instincts about Hall dont alter my opinion that Dee likely has good reasons to not want to use this forum to air a familys personal tragedy any more. The majority of the people who were questioning you were NOT anonymous (including me), and there is more factual information about HBC on Twitter than there has ever been from HBC leaders own mouths, including yours. Years ago when I was experiencing a dark period spiritually someone said to me, Hang onto God! In response without thinking these words came out of my mouth (and I cant help but think it was the Holy Spirit speaking), I cant hang onto God right now but He will hang onto me. It didnt reveal anything new. holy You are used to being in control of who sees what. TS00: I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. Hall, Ive been consistent here and elsewhere under another net handle and under my actual name that I dont think the guys up to any good at all, either years ago or now. Then add in the many who are in it for whatever personal gain they covet . I suspect that even MacDonald started out with good intentions (maybe), but when the accolades and money started streaming in started gambling with success. Since I hate group think, we did not go. I think theres a massive problem with the deference thats given to pastors and other religious leaders. Im convinced that an antinomian spirit has taken control of some ministries, where church leaders feel they have been released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law. The pastor was grooming me to be an elder, made hints that I could take over for him someday. not quick-tempered Thats a smoking crater of a response. jyjames: How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. They deserve each other. The first three paragraphs above is what I was hoping to comment on lol. The Niles Campus became our third location in 2004. 37 were here. I guess thats why I share my story, in hopes that others can be forewarned. My hands STILL shake as I write this the culture was rampant with fear, control and utter mismanagement my archived emails attest to it. Indeed. That brings me great joy, because sometimes I feel pretty alone in this wilderness. Our musicians have taken to heart the mission, core, and purpose of Vertical Church music: To write songs of ascription for the church to use in worshiping Christ around the world. The need for such men is apparent. As this dumpster fire continues to grow, how could anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry? I couldnt post that letter due to my absolute disgust at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk. Dallas Jenkins: It was leaked. The Didache and letters of Ignatius and Clement confirm this, as well as other writings from the early second century. I think this is how these pastors maintain tribal loyalties. I judge not those who remain I truly understand the depth of the manipulation but hope they do not fall victim to the crisis of faith and to the abyss that often follows when all youve built your faith on falls to ashes. Here are some of my running thoughts of the statement. And that fourth bullet point: The elders would tell people to leave quietly in order to *protect their family. MacDonald may join him next year on the Stronger Men circuit. Good Grief. Not one. GOD SAITH!!!!!. It was given to the elders two months ago. This says you are not comfortable with God being in control, or believe he has the power to work in these earthly maters. Abused and misused, it stands in for everything from I can never be good enough for God to accept me, to sin-leveling, and license to ignore my humanity and to go ahead and do the kinds of things to others I wouldnt want done to me. Max: Praise God for TWW and other watchblogs who do their best to get the word out on these guys, but you cant stop the spiritually illiterate from attending their exciting churches. Every man has his price, or a guy like me couldnt exist. But no matter what, it will get bent quickly if thats whats happening. If people develop So theyll speak of doin church together, or kingdom life, or some such nonsense. Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. you mention they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff?. It appears he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very long time. Its been about the cash for the last 20 years! There exists nowhere in the entire New Testament any reference to a single church leader other than Jesus, the Head. How many disasters do we need to see before people ask legitimate questions? The churches have become the world. Dallas Jenkins: It was given to the elders two months ago. Look what that got them. But first you must go before your brother in It makes you wonder what is in it for them to stay silent, or worse yet, to openly argue that the truth they were willing to report in secret should not be used to stop the victimization of hundreds of thousands of innocent Christians. MORE CONCERNING THE ELDERSHIP Choose from among you seven men with good reputations, men of godly character and moral integrity, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task The suggestion pleased the whole congregation; and they selected (Acts 6:5-6). The history of church offices is a bit more complicated. A friend became nearly apoplectic when I tried to explain this. into playing a role in a conspiracy they do not even grasp. I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. I was at a Lenten service and helping with confirmation this evening. That being said, I would think there is great value in making this public: as a warning for potential future victims of James MacDonald. Bible Follower | The Bible contains a wealth of knowledge and wisdom that's waiting for us to unearth it. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: I will admit I now find it kind of shocking that a guy who never knew Jesus in life could muscle his way in and call himself an apostle among the other apostles. Ishy: These churches treat women so badly, but promise men all sorts of things, Matt Chandler says I preach to men. He calls female believers at TVC our girls while hes ensnares them with the beauty of complementarity., NJ: The Chosen is similar to Risen, the excellent faith -based film that . The lawsuit also claims that beginning in 2018, a pastor at one of Harvest's campuses began working with a "disgruntled" former Harvest worker, filmmaker Dallas Jenkins, to solicit letters. It will not be revealed to any of the flock members that they are paying for SM and then to transfer over $1M a yr to the head pastor. That is one video that I wold love to post. im proud to be human. Usually being replaced by a building program or a new strategic plan or a new school blah blah blah. As my friend says, suck it up buttercup., Max: I believe if Jesus was here today, He would be sitting around the campfire drinking beer with the boys!, In all likelihood, He probably would be. Apparently DJ knew these things and witnessed these things, but did nothing about these things. During this same time period, Harvest also employed Jenkins' son, Dallas Jenkins, as executive director of Vertical Church Films. I was there (our kids went there for 2 too long years) and it was unreal what went on during and after that incident. sober-minded apostle-schmapostle. As a Christian, how could they do otherwise? Remember, God is the master designer!!. The one time we visited Spain and France and visited (maybe 4 or 5) churches from about 1200 CE up to Notre Dame in Paris, there were (especially in Spain) tons of silver and gold used on private family altars scattered all around the floor of the more recent cathedrals, to the point that there wasnt really room for many actual worshippers. Who sees what problem of self-deception wisdom that & # x27 ; s waiting for us to unearth.! Remember, God is the master designer!! speak of doin church together or... In hopes that others can be forewarned sees what it for whatever personal they. 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